Is it Possible, to make a GOOD sonic game...

I keep buying sonic games hoping that they are going to be "good" because everytime i read a preview they try to make it better. But in the end its still no good. I just recently got Sonic The Hedgehog (2006) and it was crap, the load screens were way to long and to numerous. I think what may be the problem is the ranking system they have been using since Sonic Adventure. Where depending on your score and time you get anywhere between an D to an A. And they encourage you to get "All A's" on every mission, which is to tedious especially on a horrible game.

What i would really like to see is a 3d revamp of sonic and knuckles, and with the greatness of DLC they could have the option of adding in characters.

Uh....Sonic 2006 was glitchy as hell. The whole point of the Rank system is replay value, which most people (I.E IGN) dont get. Its to keep you coming back to play. FFSX6 had 3 modes. It was there so you guys can comeback. A different challenge every time.

Sonic 2006, is a game that COULD have been great. The idea was great, and the story wasn't bad. Some people cant look passed the fact that sonic got kissed by a human. Big whoop, grow up. Mario gets macked on by big breasted ghost in paper mario, kissed by goombas in PM2. Does anyone complain? No. The voice acting was pretty good, it was the terrible glitches that ruined the game.

As for the revamp of sonic and knuckles, most people would love it. The revamp of Green Hill zone in Sonic Adventure 2, was amazing. I personally like the ranking system. It is there to improve your skills.

BTW, Sonic unleashed came out, why don't you get that? Its much better than Sonic 2006.

I heard unleashed wasnt that great. If anything i may rent it. If it werent for the whole were-hog bit i would probably like it. I never played GHZ on SA2 i didnt want to get all S Rank missions, waaaay to tedious.

the part where sonic kissed the girl didnt bother me one bit, it was just the damn loading screens. I also didnt enjoy silver to much either, they keep kranking out new hedgehogs for no reason and i wont be surprised if he gets his own game;much like shadow did.

I just want Robotnik to be treated as an evil genius instead of some dope with a lame nickname.

My idea of a perfect sonic game would be DR. ROBOTNIK secures the 7 chaos emeralds and unleashes an army of robots into New Mobius(sp?), Omega would be featured among them of course. Knuckles some how gets tricked by Robotnik again and Robotnik steals the master emerald, turning it into a powersource for his new egg carrier. And Robotnik has Metal Sonic gaurding it, along with his own mini-army of shadow clones. Sonic in his vast attempt to save Mobius tries to recollect all 7 chaos emeralds and stop robotniks plan. He gets help along the way from friends he has met in the previous Sonic games, which you never get to play as (YAY!)

And as a bonus you can download other characters and complete the game with them if you so desire.

This post has been edited by Emotionless-Geek on Dec 17 2008, 02:20 PM

That sounds like a horrible, HORRIBLE game(not really). Why the heck would Knuckles get tricked again? Why the heck would you wanna go that now-overly-cliched route for some emeralds? If anything, leave the M.A be, that way there's a small hope for the good 'ol hyper energy later on.



...but then, that's just my opinion. And I do agree with most of what you say about the sonic games. I may not give any care towards unleashed, but I still wanna try out Chronicles.

This post has been edited by Magnum_Wolfire on Dec 17 2008, 03:17 PM

I've pretty much stated my ideas for a perfect Sonic game...

Seen here

So here are the relevant bits:

So basically what I want is:

- Working controls (first and foremost get these working.)
- 2D!!! (Sonic games are only good if done 2D.)
- Acurate physics (which are partly solved by being 2D.)
- Simple story with Robotnik (not eggman) as the bad guy.
- Axe all but Sonic, Knuckles and Tails (possibly keep Shadow as well... But if he stays he's just a Sonic skin, he gets no new moves.)
- Make Robotnik actually evil, not just a rival (Rival is Knuckle's position.)
- Bring back the roboticizor.
- Make Knuckles and Tails playable characters (maybe have them go through the same stages but have to take different routes due to their specialties, like Sonic 3 and Knuckles.)
- Restore use to Chaos emeralds, (if you go through the effort to get them, make them usuable in the stages. Super Sonic returns.)
- Return of Super Knuckles (Knuckles owns the master emerald, he should be able to go super, none of this retarded hedgehog only super nonsense.)
- Working multiplayer, with different multiplayer modes.

i disagree with the 2d argument....sure just sonic in 2d was fun....17 years ago...have most people forgetten about sa2? still probably the best sonic adventure in my eyes...

emotionless...i've said this to many people.. you can't go trusting reviewers on everything they say...most of it is personal opinion that has nothing to to with your taste in games.. so don't trust most reviews unless it's a very very trustworthy reviewer that will give games the score they deserve. that being said take a look at the sonic unleashed topic...there you shall find a run played by bdx....a video of why i think sonic 06 is so badly designed and a review of unleashed for the wii by yours truely...just check em out..

maby you'll learn something

1. Controls work fine now.

2. Where is the development in the series? Mario went 3D, why cant sonic. Even MegaMan went 3D. To keep one series in 2D is lame. Besides, Unleashed had great 2D and 3D parts in it. Like i said before. Its time for advancements.

3. No one can get physics proper. Not even in Mario or Mega Man is the Physics 100%. Remember, this is a fantasy game where real-world physics shouldnt apply. Unless it is a tactical shooter, or a game using real world people, there is no need for perfect physics.

4. How many times are you going to use robotnik is being bad? Sonic saves the world, big whoop. Even Mario differentiated (sometimes).

5. Robotnik didn't help sonic stop gaia. Pretty much, unless something goes reallly bad, Eggman generally doesn't help Sonic.

6. I think an evil genius using animals to create is a bit....lame for him. It was fine in the earlier ones.

7. Seconded. They need to have them follow those routes. They Did in Sonic Adventure. Ever since then, non existent. To me they need to bring back the Sonic adventure style.

8. Remember that the chaos emeralds weren't a factor in sonic 3 and knuckles. It was the master emerald. the Chaos emeralds were just there to unlock the true ending. And besides there was only 6 emeralds in sonic 1. They need to pioritize the master emerald again.

9. As i see it, knuckles couldn't really care what happens to the planet. His job was to protect the M.E. think about it. He isn't a hero, and he isn't around all the time, His job is to sit his ass on the island and protect the master emerald. Super Knuckles had no real difference. He was faster, but pretty much did the same thing. Super Sonic gained a whole new set of abilities going super.

10. Seconded. I would love some co-op. Sonic not being able to get passed obstacles without tails/knuckles. Kind of like sonic heroes, but I am talking each player controls one person. Kind of like Sonic advance 3 almost, just with two people.


Point is, people need to stop with the "Sonic needs to go back to 2d" if that's the case then so does every other major video game mascot, but then again, megaman [s]never[s] barely left it. probably why the games are criticized constantly about being repetitive. C'mon, even pacman went 3D.

Sonic just needs a team that will take time with a game.. Right now, the development teams are rushing things out. they keep thinking outside the box within game play and story, I'll give them credit on that. However, it seems their ideas are failing and for good reason.

If you look at some things VZ listed, it makes sense. Eggman being evil? Well, in Sonic Adventure and Sonic Adventure 2, Eggman was evil. He was like a mass terrorist. He has been severely dumbed down as a villain. The only time he even tried to work with Sonic was when his plans got out of control.

And actually, Super Knuckles would be an awesome addition. You would think, Knuckles being the one who can control the master emerald, would be the first to go Super. He has control over the Chaos Emeralds with that power.

I think one mistake SEGA made was with the revival of Shadow. He should have been left dead, which would have inevitably left open roles of rivalry for Knuckles to take part in, giving him his main parts back. At least if they kept Shadow alive, they should have at least thought about his survival story a little better and not tampered with his origins story with the Black Arms.

One thing you cannot remove from the Sonic plot line is Chaos Emeralds. They've been there since the first Sonic games, with the exception of an additional being added in the second game with to give the power of Super Sonic. The Chaos Emeralds are the main theme in Sonic plot lines. As long as you can be creative about it, it won't seem repetitive.\\\

Another thing.. Game Sonic actually takes place on Earth, as Eggman says in a cut scene in SA2. Mobius is a world created for the TV series, in which you can actually spot the many differences of the worlds.

I believe Sonic needs these things to be successful:

-A good story, creative and still revolving around the Chaos Emeralds.
-Eggman/Robotnik as the main villain, responsible for the plot and final villain or just him in general.
-A more evil Eggman.
-The return of the Sonic/Knuckles rivalry and the loss of Shadow's spotlight. I don't think he's such an important character. I think Shadow was better in SA2 and they've tampered with him too much to create something stereotypical and overshadowing of Sonic.
-Tails as Sonic's best buddy, important as a character.
-Super Sonic, Super Knuckles, Hyper forms maybe even, and Super Tails again maybe. Everything from S3&K IS in fact cannon.


I think a possible successful storyline would be a Sonic origins story. If done right it could turn out well, but Sonic Team and SEGA have a way of distorting projects, turning them toward what new fans want and not what their veteran fans care for, which may in fact have a better chance in saving the blue blur. Hell, why don't they try something THEY want for once?

Well, Sonic needed them to stop Eggman, so in a way, they were part of the plot line and if you remember, Sonic actually has them at the beginning of the game. S3&K picks up right after StH2. The whole storyline between the two is Eggman trying to launch the Death Egg. Actually, the Super Emeralds were more prevalent in S3&K's storyline, which may inference Sonic's need of and extra power to stop Eggman.

Also, if you remember. There was no Master Emerald in the first game, the Chaos Emeralds have always held significance. You haven't truly beat the game until you collected all of them, that's how it always was worked.

This post has been edited by ClockHass on Dec 17 2008, 06:03 PM

The emeralds have always been what the sonic games centered around. Sega cant do the things nintendo does, like a galaxy instead of a world and still make a good game.

Shadow isnt that bad of a character its just that he is a recolor, ultimately.

-Sonic should def stay 3D, 2D was only done back then because thats all the machines could handle back then. To see a console game thats 2d outside of arcade would be a slap in the face.

- I dont just follow like one review i follow like 8 different ones and if they all say something that is the same then chances are its true. And that can lead to me not wanting to check a game out.

I don't think Shadow was a bad character at first. He was villainous and seemed heartless, but really had emotion for motive. The thing that actually made Shadow more unique then any other character in the Sonic Universe is that he had a defined history. Knuckles does, in a way, but his is shrouded in mystery.

Shadow is too cliche now. He has no set backs, no limits it appears. He seems endlessly powerful and uncaring. Shadow is a ruined character. An example of what could end up happening to the entire franchise, in my opinion.

There are many paths Sonic can take, but what needs to be done is:

-Side games, like Sonic and the Secret rings and Sonic and the Black Knight.
-And then add a main story with games that fall in a sequence, or cannon line. (This has proven to be more or less hated by the fans however..)

A slap in the face you say? Hmm, Street fighter turbo 2 remix? is that a slap in the face? And what about Metal Slug? and Megaman X8? Or Marvel vs capcom 2?

I think it's only a slap if it's not done properly.

And 3D may have worked for mario, but that doesn't mean it's good that sonic be 3D. As a matter of fact most people prefer 2D sonic games over 3D ones.

Here's some evidence:


2D games

Sonic rush: http://www.gamefaqs.com/portable/ds/home/920803.html
Reader Review Average
8.1

Sonic Advance: http://www.gamefaqs.com/portable/gbadvance/home/516689.html
Reader Review
7.9

Sonic Advance 2: http://www.gamefaqs.com/portable/gbadvance/home/561898.html
Reader Review Average
8.1

Sonic Advance 3: http://www.gamefaqs.com/portable/gbadvance/home/918892.html
Reader Review Average
8.7

Sonic battle: http://www.gamefaqs.com/portable/gbadvance/home/914720.html
Reader Review
7.7

Sonic pinball party: http://www.gamefaqs.com/portable/gbadvance/home/589414.html
Reader Review
7.8



3D games-
Sonic heroes: http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/gamecube/home/914714.html
Reader Review
7.3

Sonic adventure 2: http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/gamecube/home/533012.html
Reader Review
8.3

Sonic adventure dx: http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/gamecube/home/589413.html
Reader Review
8.1

Sonic and secret rings: http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/wii/home/932811.html
Reader Review
7.3

Sonic the hedgehog 2006: http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/xbox360/home/929717.html
Reader Review
5.5

Shadow the hedgehog: http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/xbox/home/927124.html
Reader Review
6.0


6 2D and 6 3D... On average the PEOPLE prefer the 2D games. Fact is, only 2 games has sonic team ever done close to right in 3D. (Sonic adventure 1 and 2.)
3D sonic games just aren't as well done, that's the fact. And as for this vaunted forced evolution... it's been tried, it doesn't work. It's time to realize the mistakes and do something right. Use 2.5D if you must, but not put it in 3D.

And if you'll notice I didn't use the older sonic games, because those were scored even higher than the newer ones. (Which only adds to my point. 2D is better in this case than 3D.)

And just because all the others went 3D doesn't mean Sonic has to as well. Thats akin to your mother handing you the line: "if everyone else jumped off a bridge, would you?"
And it's not like you need to go 3D to have development in a series. There are other ways to develop a series, and they're oft more effective.

Also, on my list, thats what I think would be necessary for a good sonic game. And for some of sonic team's ventures the controls don't always work right, and aren't as tight or responsive as they should be.

And as well for the physics... If they're based in real world physics then alot of things wouldn't be possible... but then again why would a 3 foot talking hypersonic hedgehog be possible? So then I'm going to say the physics need to be an accurate representation of what the character can do coupled with the world. So obviously no Sonic 2006 styled walk up walls thing. But at the same time, sonic is able to turn far quicker than physics say he should be able to.

As for the megaman and mario physics... they're certainly more believeable than sonic's physics... Megaman's jump, run and shoot are are perfectly fine. Also why I say 2D = good, as it fixes all the pesky turning issues that a physics engine would have to address. It would also simplify the controls and make it far easier to perfect them.


As for the roboticization thing, what better way to build an army than force thousands of people to become your perfect slave army? How evil is that?

As for knuckles, make a story reason for him to be there... oh maybe use the idea that Robotnik stole the master emerald? There we go, Knuckles story problem fixed. (And it's no different than the countless times bowser captures peach. That gets away with a free pass, so lets allow this one too.)
Then you could further elaborate the plan that robotnik has for the master emerald...

A return to roots isn't a bad thing, this isn't like mario... Sonic has ventured pretty far from where he started, and had some success and alot of failure.

It can also be said hat they haven't found the proper formula to create a Sonic game in 3D.. The controls seemed flawed for the most part in almost every game..

2D Sonic is much more simplistic and easier to create.. It's the problem with transferring the speed to platform and the game play. Somehow though, they did it right with Sonic Adventure and Sonic Adventure 2.

Neither way is right.. Gamer's have preferences.. I'll tell you the worst solution though. Combining platforming with the 2D aspect. Bad idea right there. If anything, I think they need to go back and look at how they made the Sonic Adventures if they plan to make more 3D games..

2D games aren't what fans want on the the console systems (PS3, 360, Wii) though. Your 2D examples VZ were examples on hand held systems, which also calls for a lot different design.

One problem. Recently, it seems like the Master Emerald has disappeared from the game's existence. Was Knuckles guarding it in Sonic 06? No. Wait.. wait.. Maybe he just made it so small he carries it around like a chaos emerald. Right? I mean, after all SA2 created one of the biggest plot holes ever showing that Knuckles could change the size of the M.E. So, SEGA has created a problem for themselves right there with the Master Emerald's respective usage.

Who actually said that knuckles was sonics rival? Because he fought sonic in S3&K? Where does this state this? has sega announced that knuckles was sonics rival? Not that i remember. Rivalry tends to extend to those who are competing. Sonic is speed, knux is power. What sense does that make? Also, yes i very much think there is some sort of rivalry, but not as big as Sonic to Shadow.

Definition of Rivalry

Also, reader reviews. I find all reviews are bullshit. Because someone decides to not like a game, suddenly its a valid opinion? A review is an opinion, not an overall fact. I am not dismissing y'all opinions on the game, however if y'all follow an opinion because someone ELSE said it, i wont give it a bother. Reviews are an opinion, and opinion represents one person, not all, unless it is a surveyed review.

Also, in sonic 1/2 the only point of the emeralds were to get everything. They did not influence the ending in any way shape or form.

In no means am i saying sonic is perfect. No game is perfect, but to say that he needs to go back to 2D, is like telling graphic/web designers to use paint for everything.

As for the physics, Sonic 2006 is, once again, seriously flawed. In Sonic Unleashed, turning isn't simple. Its closer to the physics you want. its hard to really show off physics in a 2D environment. C'mon, im pretty sure you can make a simple jumping engine in flash.

As for dumbing eggman down, are you serious? His projects have gotten better. I wouldn't say their dumbing him down, as i would say they made him lazy. he gave up trying to beat sonic using his own stuff, and is now trying to unlock some super monster ultimate weapon to do all the work for him. Obviously this is an advancement. Im pretty sure bowser doesnt use the same tactic to steal the princess. Just like Sigma/Wily didn't use the same tactics, (except 8 bosses...yadda yadda).

Point is, our generation is getting older, they aren't appealing to us anymore, but a whole nother generation. My girlfriend loves the were-hog sections of Sonic Unleashed, so i guess whatever they were going for, worked. Also, i really think people are taking this gaming situation too seriously. This is why i don't play competitively, or read review sites. There will be that one person who is biased against the shit. I.E Hilary Goldstien. Play a game to play a game, not to bitch about how it isn't what you wanted. I gave my P.o.V, on Sonic. I am really tired of having this conversation, so pretty much i will either merge these topics or forward any sonic opinionated topic to this topic. We don't need to have this discussion in 5 topics.

I apologize in advance if anyone thinks that this was written in a rage, as i am playing assassins creed while i am typing this .

It's always been speed versus power. Red versus blue, and I'm pretty sure the manual to Sonic and Knuckles sets up the rivalry. If nothing else this has to count for something:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knuckles_The_Echidna

And since they both ended up wanting to defeat Robotnik... I'm sure thats another way to have a rivalry continue... Since by your own provided definition that rival means to compete, well both competed t defeat robotnik in the end, even if they didn't know it to start with.


As far as reviews go, if alot of reviews rate low then there is an obvious problem, and if you look at the averages of the scores you will see that on average, 2D games tend to be better scoring games. (True they may be on handhelds, but that is somewhat irrelevant because the DS and PSP are certainly capable of having 3D games created for them and thusly running 3D games, so then why do 2D on a system that can do 3D? Granted the gba games could try to do 3D if they wanted, but it'd be rather different and likely even worse than the console 3D outings.)

Hmm, sonic 2's ending changed if you got the emeralds didn't it? Cause I thought if you did, half way down Sonic turned super and flew the rest of the way... Might have to check that out on youtube or something to be sure cause I could be wrong on this.

It did.. and Sonic 3 is a direct follow up of Sonic 2, so in order to make the storyline make sense you have to collect those chaos emeralds..